Prabhupada was very satisfied with all the new developments a
Srila Prabhupada lectured to about a hundred people this evening at a gentleman's house in Mathura. After taking prasadam we returned by car, getting back at eight-thirty.
On our arrival back at Krishna-Balaram Mandir, Srila Prabhupada received his advance copies of the newly printed Srimad Bhagavatam 8.2. They were sent by the BBT with a couple from California, Alex Kulik and his wife. Alex, whose wife is initiated but not now living in the temple, is a businessman involved with the Laguna Beach temple. He has met Prabhupada before and has given donations for different projects. Prabhupada has encouraged him to take up the Krishna conscious way of life and was happy to receive him in his darsana room even though it was so late. Alex also brought the first reprint of the First Canto Part Two in the new format.
Alex produced plans and photos of a site for a new temple in San Diego. Prabhupada was already aware that we have lost permission to use the main building of the property we now occupy. Gunagrahi prabhu, the temple president, has been obliged to move the Deities into a small room of what had been the main residential building. Now another place has been found, near to the university. Alex explained that it would give us close proximity to approximately thirty-six thousand students. The property has buildings, as it was formerly a motel (which went out of business). The main building, where they intend to start a Govinda's restaurant, contains thirty units for the asrama and a small swimming pool. There are about two acres already landscaped with various types of trees including palms, pomegranates, peaches, and plums. At the mention of pomegranate, one of his favorites, Prabhupada grinned. "Pomegranate is a very nice fruit." There is sufficient space to construct a custom-built temple with enough left over for growing Flowers and some market gardening. When Alex mentioned clearing some of the land for the construction, Prabhupada expressed concern that no big trees be removed and also suggested that they keep a cow, though Alex didn't think this would be possible, since the property is within city limits. Alex said that the only problem he foresaw was getting the zoning changed, because although the current law allows for a church, an application would nonetheless have to be formally submitted.
Prabhupada immediately suggested how to avoid having to apply. He said that our men could simply say that it was a community project. "There is no need of re-zoning, because we are Krishna, Hare Krishna community. So wherever we live we worship Krishna. It is not a public show; it is our own private worshiping Deity. I can keep Deity in my home. Just like Christian Deity, Mary, Jesus Christ, in the room. There is no objection."
Alex did concede that local authorities in San Diego seem to be against us, because each time the devotees have applied for a property, they have been refused.
"That's why I say don't call it temple," Prabhupada told him. "We are just establishing a community project. But because we are Hare Krishna people, so wherever we live we worship Krishna, that's all. Don't say 'temple.' "
After some discussion, Alex did show some confidence that interference would be minimal, but he promised that if there were problems they would adopt Prabhupada's strategy. In fact, the property is already in escrow, and a zoning change has been applied for. He said that the chances of it been rejected are "very slim."
As far as the design goes, Prabhupada gestured just outside his windows at the three towering domes of Krishna-Balaram Mandir and asked, "So why don't you make a temple like this? You see?" Then he thought again and said that of course, if they did that, it would be obvious that the building was a temple. Still, he said, " Best thing is this type temple."
Alex said that it would all depend on cost. At thirty to forty dollars per square foot, a new temple would range between $140,000 and $260,000. He was happy to tell Prabhupada that he had personally collected about $100,000 and that one other devotee had about $25,000. He was confident they would have the money within six months. Prabhupada was pleased to hear all the plans and encouraged Alex to proceed.
Putting the plans away, Alex produced a record album. It was the first test pressing from Golden Avatar Studios in Los Angeles of a modern musical offering called Change of Heart.
This summer Srila Prabhupada gave the devotees the go-ahead to produce songs containing Krishna conscious philosophy but set to modern music. Up until now, the only song tapes and records we have in ISKCON are traditional bhajanas. Everyone present was keen to hear the music, so Prabhupada asked me to play it. Seeing the actual vinyl record, he asked me why we don't get a player to take around with us. A cheap Japanese one would cost only fifteen dollars, and anyone coming over could bring it with them.
I wasn't enthusiastic and explained why. "We can't carry it all. We've got so much baggage, we couldn't possibly carry all . . . " And I pointed out that everything was available on cassette, including this new album.
Prabhupada tipped his head from side to side and accepted this as being more practical. I set up the Uher tape player on his desk and, surrounded by a dozen smiling disciples, Prabhupada sat back to listen to the songs. Apart from wanting to hear it, we were eager to see Srila Prabhupada's personal reaction to this first attempt to attract the public through the current musical idiom. Played and sung by Mangalananda prabhu, it is an eclectic fusion of middle-of-the-road "pop" music. Although some lyrics were allegorical, much of the contents directly glorified Krishna and presented the philosophy of Krishna consciousness. Prabhupada was quite amused to hear all the weird electronic sounds and laughed when he heard some of the fancier guitar riffs, his eyes opening wide and his teeth showing as he grinned in mock surprise. It was obviously not to his personal taste, but he listened to the whole of the first side and at the end declared his approval and said that it is all right for the devotees to begin selling the album.
Prabhupada was very satisfied with all the new developments and pleased beyond measure to see his movement constantly expanding. The new plans for San Diego, the possible challenges they bring, and the inventive and expert preaching strategies of his disciples, coupled with the recent attacks and accusations all combined to put him in a jovial and expansive mood. "So take your country and make it Krishna conscious. Then surely we shall get the government. This is the prediction of a politician: 'Krishna conscious, the Hare Krishna movement is spreading like an epidemic. That I'm afraid within ten years they'll get the government.' "
"If they find out that that's our actual plan . . . " I began, but Prabhupada interjected with a big grin, "Why you should not need? It must have. Hare Krishna party. You have got Democratic Party, Republican Party-another party, Hare Krishnas. Bas."
" 'Prasadam Party,' " Alex suggested.
"No," Prabhupada said, thinking of a specific reason. "Hare Krishnas. That will be main thing." His grin brightened mischievously. "At least they will criticize Hare Krishna and chant Hare Krishna." With everyone around laughing and he himself shaking happily at the thought, he told us, "That's all. We want. It is said that if we respect chanting, it is very good, even by neglecting chant, that is also good. Just like Ajamila, he chanted. He never meant 'Narayana.' He meant his son, but he got result. Ante narayana smritih [SB 2.1.6]. He never meant that he's calling for Narayana. He did not follow up bhakti. But Narayana took care of it that 'Now anyway he's chanting "Narayana." He must come to Vaikuntha.' "
Alex produced some other gifts for Srila Prabhupada -honey from his wife, a present from Visakha dasi in Los Angeles, and cow ghee from the devotees in San Diego, all of which Prabhupada happily accepted. Alex also had something for me-two new power supplies for the Uher cassette recorder, sent by Krishna Kanti prabhu.
It was late, but as the darsana ended and devotees began to file out, Jagadisa announced the arrival of a gentleman, Mr. Saxena from Rajasthan, who before he retired was an inspector of schools. After having met Jagadisa through one of our traveling parties, Mr. Saxena has come to Vrindavana on Jagadisa's invitation. Jagadisa is thinking that he might be suitable as a Hindi teacher for our gurukula.
Despite the hour, Prabhupada greeted Mr. Saxena warmly and after briefing him on the principles of the gurukula, told him that there was one underlying principle that was necessary to make it successful. "You cannot teach others if you are not fixed also. Otherwise it will be useless. It is useless, apani acari prabhu jiveri sikaimu. If you are fixed up in principles, then you can teach others that principle. That will be effective. If you smoke, and if you tell others that 'Don't smoke,' that is useless. First of all give up these bad habits. Then you can teach; it will be effective."
Prabhupada wants qualified, experienced teachers, but not at the expense of the standards in both philosophy and behavior that must be instilled in the students.
Mr. Saxena said something about vidhi, religious regulations.
Prabhupada was quick to explain that religion has two aspects. "Vidhi, mostly theoretical and when you practice it-it is jnana, vijnana. So jnana means theoretical knowledge, and vijnana means practical application."
Mr. Saxena, showing his own limited understanding, asked Prabhupada, "Is religion a practical knowledge?"
Prabhupada elaborated patiently. "Religion means the law given by God. That is religion. They do not know it. They do not know what is God; they do not know what is the words or order of God. Whole world is like that. They profess some religion, but religion means the law of God. But if they do not know what is God, then how he'll understand the law of God? That means there is no religion. All cheating. Dharmah projjita kaitavo. The Bhagavata rejects all kinds of so called religious system, accusing that they're all cheating. Cheating, all cheating. If you do not know God, what is the meaning of their religion? It is simply cheating. If you have accepted a style of religion without any understanding of God, then it is simply you have been cheated. And that is going on. Everywhere."
Mr. Saxena told Prabhupada that he has been to the four corners of India, Badarikasrama, Ramesvaram, Jagannatha Puri, and Dvaraka, and has visited many big asramas and spiritual centers, but that despite what is spoken in large gatherings, the caretakers of the tirthas are not practicing. "But if you see that practical life, you realize all this tirthas, they are no more tirthas now. All use that word 'shopping centers,' what we call." He listed off a few of the more well-known Mayavadi gurus who run courses of meditation and yoga ranging from fifteen days to three years, but in none of them has he found what he is looking for. "Everywhere I found there is no . . . We are after peace. There is no peace there."
Prabhupada told him that religion is obedience to God. "This is the religion. God says that 'You surrender unto Me.' This is religion.
So if one does not know what is God and where to surrender, then where is religion? Is it wrong for God to say that 'You surrender unto Me'? Can you say like that?"
Mr. Saxena, a humble and unpretentious person, agreed. "How can you say?"
Prabhupada said that the problem is that the Mayavadis want to take the position of God. " 'Everyone is God. I am God; you are God.' This is they are claiming."
Mr. Saxena again agreed, and mentioned the so-called "Bhagavan Rajneesh" who is currently popular.
Prabhupada shook his head in disapproval. "This is going on. People also do not ask that 'How you become God?' That's also so foolish. They accept any rascal as God. That Rajneesh, what he is? He advertises 'Bhagavan,' and there are many rascals, they accept him. What he has done?"
"How to stop it then?" Mr. Saxena asked.
"Stop, but unless you are intelligent, how it can be stopped?" Prabhupada asked him in return. "If the people are not intelligent, the cheaters will cheat."
"But Swamiji, mostly educated persons, Ph.D., D.Lit., M.A., postgraduates, they are the followers of this."
For an ordinary person, titles of learning are certainly impressive, but not for Srila Prabhupada. "Therefore in the Bhagavad-gita it is said, mayayapahrita jnana. They are supposed to be very learned, but actually they're fools, mayayapahrita jnana. These so called educated, they are bereft of knowledge. They have no common sense. That I was asking: this debauch, as God. That also [is] ignorance. He does not know what is God. He does not know. We have got the definition of God, aisvaryasya samagrasya viryasya yasasahsriyah/ jnana vairagyayos caiva shannam bhaga itingana [Vishnu Purana 6.5.47].
Aisvaryasya samagrasya, that one who is in possession of all the wealth, viryasya all strength, all faith yasasah, all beauty, all knowledge and all renunciation, that is God. Now so far Krishna is concerned, He showed all these things. Aisvaryasya . . . For example Krishna married sixteen thousand wives, and for each wife a different palace. And for each wife ten sons. Woman requires very nice accommodation, sons, husband; that is their ambition that He fulfilled, although he married 16,108 wives. This is aisvaryasya samagrasya viryasya. This so called rascal Bhagavan, who has shown this? Why shall I accept this cheap god? Show me something that you are God. Seven years old Krishna, He lifted the Govardhana hill."
Prabhupada told Mr. Saxena that although information about God is in the sastras, people are unaware of it and thus are easily cheated. "There is, but they have no knowledge to compare with the idea of God. So far knowledge is concerned, Bhagavad-gita, left by Krishna, it is adored all over the world. Especially nowadays we are presenting Bhagavad-gita As It Is and millions of copies we are selling." He referred his guest to an advertisement about the Krishna book declaring "1.5 million in print" and proudly told him, "All these Krishna consciousness books, we are selling daily five to six lakhs of rupees. All over the world. I have estimate. That religious book, it is full of religion and philosophy; still they are selling."
"That is an achievement," Mr. Saxena said, his eyes widening in appreciation.
And his books sales are not only in the West, Prabhupada informed him. "In India, we have got standing order from all universities, libraries, and many other places. Complete standing order value is forty thousand rupees."
An intelligent man, Mr. Saxena ventured that having books is not enough; teaching the contents is the important thing. Otherwise people have the tendency to speculate. Prabhupada agreed and said that therefore he had established over a hundred centers.
"Yes, there should be centers too," Mr. Saxena replied. "[They] could give right interpretation to all these things. Because interpretation means everybody is not in contact with Sanskrit."
Jagadisa showed him a copy of Bhagavad-gita As It Is and the arrangements Srila Prabhupada has made in all his books to minimize the risk of interpretation, not only elaborate purports but also Sanskrit/English transliteration and word-for-word translation.
Mr. Saxena had not seen Prabhupada's books before and was duly impressed. "Thank you, thank you, thank you," he told Srila Prabhupada. "You must have also this missionary spirit. So I am at your disposal now."
Prabhupada was pleased with his attitude and submissive approach and told the temple managers to immediately give him a single room.
On being told by Prabhupada that he had already published eighty-four books, Mr. Saxena acknowledged the effort and said that at a program he had attended held by our traveling sankirtana party, he had seen the film "Brilliant As the Sun." He had only one request: "that you once make us away from this samsaya [doubts]. Samsayatma vinasyati. There should be no samsaya."
Prabhupada smiled and gave his assurance. "If you increase your attachment for Krishna, then it will automatically. Param drishtva nivartate [Bg. 2.59]." To substantiate this, he quoted the verse by Rupa Gosvami from Caitanya-caritamrita Adi 5.224 in which one gopi warns another not to look upon the beautiful form of Krishna. "There is govindakhyam haritanum, standing in kesitirtho 'pakanthe, with Flute and smiling and with the moonshine He has become very, very bright. So, but don't see, don't see. Why? Provided you have the desire [to] no more [have] your association with so called society, friends. If you have got desire to enjoy society, friendship, and love of this world, then don't see. The purport is that anyone who sees Krishna actually, he loses interest in this. So therefore we must increase our interest in Krishna, then automatically . . . Ma prekshishthastava yadi sakhe bandhu sange 'sti rangah. If you want to enjoy the company of your society, friendship, and love, then don't see. It will be finished."
With this verse he revealed that this is the true power of the Krishna consciousness movement, why there is so much agitation against us by the materialists. "For this reason they are now bringing charges against us that we are spoiling these young men by brainwash. There is great opposition in the United States to our movement that we are spoiling these young men by giving some speculation, controlling over their mind, and simply injecting some ideas in their brain, brainwash."
It was quite late, and Mr. Saxena was sensitive about taking up too much of Prabhupada's time and attention. He made to take his leave and, gripping the Bhagavad-gita As It Is in his hand, thanked Srila Prabhupada. "So I'll keep this one for my room."
But Prabhupada checked him. "No, you cannot keep. This is a sample."
Mr. Saxena acquiesced. "Accha."
"Pictures you can get," Prabhupada told him.
Mr. Saxena smiled happily. "Ah, yes, yes, it makes no difference. Your preachings are more than pictures."
With that, their meeting closed. When everyone had exited, Palika brought in a bowl of dalia, cracked wheat, made with milk. Prabhupada has been experiencing some weakness and poor digestion so recently he has been taking this in the evenings. It is a definite help and it is giving him some strength; he says he has been feeling some benefit from it the last few days.
Reference: Transcendental Diary Volume 5 by Hari Sauri Dasa
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