Mock debate on anti-cult furore.
In January 1977, on a 24-hour train ride from Bombay to Allahabad,
Prabhupada responded further to the anti-cult furore. As Ramesvara, in mock-debate style, put forward various arguments, Srila Prabhupada
enthusiastically dismantled them one by one. They claim, Ramesvara said, 'that our lifestyle tends to take the devotee and
isolate him from the world.
Prabhupada was disarmingly frank. "Yes, we hate to mix with you. No
gentleman tries to mix with loafers. Crows will not like to live with the ducks
and white swans, and white swans will not like to live with the crows. That is
natural division; birds of the same feather flock together".
Ramesvara continued. 'They have a list of five or six conditions, and they say if all these conditions are present, then it is a suitable atmosphere for brainwashing. They say we are imposing those conditions on our members'. Prabhupada agreed. "Yes. We are brainwashing from bad to good. That is our business. We are washing the brain from all rascaldom. Your brain is filled up with rubbish things meat-eating, illicit sex, gambling. So we are washing them. Ce to-darpana-marjanam. Srinvatam sva-kathah krishnah punya-sravana-kirtanah hridy antah-stho hy abhadrani. Abhadrani means bad things. So the bad things should be washed. Don't you cleanse your home? Don't you cleanse your room? Is that brainwashing? So if you wash your room very clean, who blames you? But you are so rascal that you charge us, Why are you washing away this garbage? We are washing out the garbage and you are protesting. This is your intelligence?. But intelligent men wash away the garbage. That is the law of civilization, to cleanse. That we are doing. According to Vedic civilization, you are actually untouchable. Now we have come to touch you. Therefore wash first you must wash. According to Indian civilization, the dog is untouchable, but he is your best friend. So you are untouchable. Therefore we have to wash your brain. Unless your brain is washed, you cannot understand Krishna. Man is known by his company. You sleep with dog, you eat with dog, your best friend is dog, so what are you? You must be washed. Scrubbed".
Prabhupada asked Ramesvara what was the opponent's definition of brainwashing. They say, Ramesvara began, 'that brainwashing means that when you deprive a person of sleep, of food, you isolate him from the rest of the world, you have him chant something over and over again many times, in this way you get control of his mind, and then whatever you want, he will do, just like a robot. They say that we only let them eat twice a day, and even then, not only is there no meat, but there is very little protein'. "That depends on him", Prabhupada rejoined. "If he likes to eat that kind of food, you have no right to enforce upon him. There are different persons; they like different types of food, and food must be according to his own taste". Ramesvara stuck to his argument. 'But only twice a day? "If he likes twice a day", Prabhupada said, why you give him thrice? That is his choice" Ramesvara brought up the argument of sleep deprivation. 'And sleeping only four, five hours, Very little. "Yes", Prabhupada retorted. "Because it is a waste of time". Ramesvara dutifully pressed on. "This makes his mind very weak You rascal!" Prabhupada was enjoying the mock debate. "You have nothing to do. You sleep. Napoleon used to sleep for one hour, two hours. He was such a busy man. So they are so busy in Krishna consciousness, they have no time to sleep. Every great man does not sleep very much. Sleeping is simply waste of time . If he does not sleep more it is a sign of greatness". The conversation went on for a considerable time, all the while Prabhupada supplying the devotees with the necessary ammunition to fight the on-going battles with the opponents of the Krishna consciousness movement.
Ramesvara continued. 'They have a list of five or six conditions, and they say if all these conditions are present, then it is a suitable atmosphere for brainwashing. They say we are imposing those conditions on our members'. Prabhupada agreed. "Yes. We are brainwashing from bad to good. That is our business. We are washing the brain from all rascaldom. Your brain is filled up with rubbish things meat-eating, illicit sex, gambling. So we are washing them. Ce to-darpana-marjanam. Srinvatam sva-kathah krishnah punya-sravana-kirtanah hridy antah-stho hy abhadrani. Abhadrani means bad things. So the bad things should be washed. Don't you cleanse your home? Don't you cleanse your room? Is that brainwashing? So if you wash your room very clean, who blames you? But you are so rascal that you charge us, Why are you washing away this garbage? We are washing out the garbage and you are protesting. This is your intelligence?. But intelligent men wash away the garbage. That is the law of civilization, to cleanse. That we are doing. According to Vedic civilization, you are actually untouchable. Now we have come to touch you. Therefore wash first you must wash. According to Indian civilization, the dog is untouchable, but he is your best friend. So you are untouchable. Therefore we have to wash your brain. Unless your brain is washed, you cannot understand Krishna. Man is known by his company. You sleep with dog, you eat with dog, your best friend is dog, so what are you? You must be washed. Scrubbed".
Prabhupada asked Ramesvara what was the opponent's definition of brainwashing. They say, Ramesvara began, 'that brainwashing means that when you deprive a person of sleep, of food, you isolate him from the rest of the world, you have him chant something over and over again many times, in this way you get control of his mind, and then whatever you want, he will do, just like a robot. They say that we only let them eat twice a day, and even then, not only is there no meat, but there is very little protein'. "That depends on him", Prabhupada rejoined. "If he likes to eat that kind of food, you have no right to enforce upon him. There are different persons; they like different types of food, and food must be according to his own taste". Ramesvara stuck to his argument. 'But only twice a day? "If he likes twice a day", Prabhupada said, why you give him thrice? That is his choice" Ramesvara brought up the argument of sleep deprivation. 'And sleeping only four, five hours, Very little. "Yes", Prabhupada retorted. "Because it is a waste of time". Ramesvara dutifully pressed on. "This makes his mind very weak You rascal!" Prabhupada was enjoying the mock debate. "You have nothing to do. You sleep. Napoleon used to sleep for one hour, two hours. He was such a busy man. So they are so busy in Krishna consciousness, they have no time to sleep. Every great man does not sleep very much. Sleeping is simply waste of time . If he does not sleep more it is a sign of greatness". The conversation went on for a considerable time, all the while Prabhupada supplying the devotees with the necessary ammunition to fight the on-going battles with the opponents of the Krishna consciousness movement.
Reference: The Great Transcendental Adventure by Kurma Dasa
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