March 4, 1976 : Mayapur
Hari Sauri: We had a debate on the balcony about whether everything in the material creation is actually spirit or not. Acyutananda Swami, a witty, brilliant speaker, argued that everything is not spirit, at least not in the sense that spiritual means everything is conscious. Thinking that everything made of matter is conscious, he said, could lead to madness. You might walk around on tiptoes not wishing to hurt the floor, or you might hesitate to close the door, not wishing to hurt the door. In this way, Maharaja spoke quite convincingly that matter is not spirit.
Later I went in to see Srila Prabhupada to get a proper understanding. He explained that everything is spirit, and thus everything is conscious. The material energy is conscious, but undeveloped. It can develop consciousness by Krishna's will. Prasadam is matter but changes into spirit, and it is therefore conscious. He gave me an example he used a few days ago, how the body produces skin and nails: one is sensitive and the other insensitive. Cut one and you feel pain, cut the other and you feel nothing. Yet the body as a whole is conscious.
The universe is Krishna's body and thus is conscious. Jivas, the individual souls, are very minute consciousness, but there is also "mass consciousness." If you touch a stone it is conscious, yet unconscious, or undeveloped. The term "matter" simply indicates the state of one of Lord Krishna's eternal spiritual potencies.
I left happily in mind and gratified in heart. This is one of the advantages of being with him personally - all doubts can be immediately resolved.
Later I went in to see Srila Prabhupada to get a proper understanding. He explained that everything is spirit, and thus everything is conscious. The material energy is conscious, but undeveloped. It can develop consciousness by Krishna's will. Prasadam is matter but changes into spirit, and it is therefore conscious. He gave me an example he used a few days ago, how the body produces skin and nails: one is sensitive and the other insensitive. Cut one and you feel pain, cut the other and you feel nothing. Yet the body as a whole is conscious.
The universe is Krishna's body and thus is conscious. Jivas, the individual souls, are very minute consciousness, but there is also "mass consciousness." If you touch a stone it is conscious, yet unconscious, or undeveloped. The term "matter" simply indicates the state of one of Lord Krishna's eternal spiritual potencies.
I left happily in mind and gratified in heart. This is one of the advantages of being with him personally - all doubts can be immediately resolved.
Reference: A Transcendental Diary Volume 1 - Hari Sauri Dasa
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